Nato Welch ([info]natowelch) wrote,
@ 2007-01-28 02:00:00
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Entry tags:disclaimer, lj

General Disclaimer
I reserve the right to have folks I don't like (or that don't like me) on my "friends" list. Being on my friends list doesn't make you my friend, it means I want to read your journal. In corollary, not being on my friends list does not mean you aren't my friend. Don't ask to be "unfriended", and don't ask me to unfriend anyone else. Also note that I have no control over those I am a "friend of", as being on someone else's friends list may simply mean that they also, just want to read my journal. I thoroughly reject the spoon-fed semantics suggested by Livejournal's architects in favor the actual (quite) useful functionality they offer. Finding other uses for technologies aside from that originally intended by the authors is called hacking. I like that.


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Dude!!!
[info]saintjudas
2006-05-18 06:46 am UTC (link)
I so know what you mean...

I have a lot of women who either want me to add them or want me to remove them due to all sorts of weirdness. I ask them to give me a good reason why I should remove them from my list so that it will make it more difficult to read their journal... I get no response from them as to why I should do so. It really seemed to make this one chick irate so she deleted her journal... I had it backed up as I downloaded it as research for a book that I have been working on, so I emailed it to her to show her that deleting it would not make it impossible for me to read what had been posted....

I also like finding uses for technologies aside that those intended by the creators.. ie hacking. Pity that I am not as good at it as I used to be...

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[info]abracas
2007-01-28 01:45 am UTC (link)
"I ask them to give me a good reason why I should remove them from my list"???

Because they asked you should be good enough...way to show lack of respect!!

if someone decides they don't want to friend you or be friended by you shouldn't expressing that be enough of a reason to leave them alone...yeah, sure you can always go and read the public entries but by showing a complete and utter lack of concern or respect for their feelings and wishes you all but guarantee no chance of any kind of friendship with that person and reveal yourself to be way more concerned with yourself than is needed...

and on that note, Nato...I'm gonna ask you again to grow up and respect my wishes on this as well...

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[info]natowelch
2007-01-28 02:39 am UTC (link)
I you have nothing better to do than to continue making demands about what people you don't like read, then I don't see how I'm the one who needs to grow up.

If you don't think my disclaimer isn't directed at people who don't claim to be my friends (like yourself), then who do you think it is for?

That said, if there's some chance we could be (actual) friends again, I'll certainly consider it. I'm not into burning bridges. I had no idea this had gotten personal, and I'm sorry that I hurt you, however that may have happened.

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[info]abracas
2007-01-28 04:42 am UTC (link)
This isn't personal..

Look...you can bookmark whatever you want, read any publicly accessible page online you can find....but your disclaimer is meaningless...and arrogant.

If I ask someone to leave my house then I expect them to leave, if I ask someone not to call or to refrain from engaging me in conversation or butting in of prior conversations without invitation then I expect them to. If they don't they are simply rude.

Whatever YOU want to say about LJ's friends system and whatever your opinion about it is is irrelevant....being 'freinded' or on someones FL makes an implication that there is some kind of relationship existing that may not. Refusing to take someone of who has asked you to, someone who is in fact asking you to cease implying that YOU have a relationship wiht that person when you do not, is the height of arrogance, especially when it is just as simple for you to bookmark the page or put it in your rss feedand read the public posts at your leisure just as simply.

It' things like this that are exactly the reason why I no longer respect you...you seem to think you live an intellecually exempliary life when in fact you are simply just being rude and selfish.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]natowelch
2007-01-28 05:50 am UTC (link)
I can't say I find this line of argument convincing. I'm disappointed you didn't bother to offer any incentives for compromising with your unusual perspective of what constitutes LJ etiquette. I tried, anyway. I'm sorry it didn't work out.

Please stop bothering me in my journal about the content of my reading list. Your allegations about my character and opinions (Exemplary? Who are you kidding?) are unjustified and disrespectful.

If you want me to take you off my reading list, your best bet is to make it not worth reading. As I've been trying to say, it isn't personal.

Not anymore, anyway.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]abracas
2007-01-28 06:39 am UTC (link)
You know...it really doesn't matter to me if someone keeps me ontheir FL or not...not any any real or devastating way anyway. That's not the point here. It is quite simply that you seem to place your intellect and 'integrity' over and and above common social courtesy and empathy. YOu remind me of those annoying 8 year olds who reply to everything with "but why?" Who says you need or deserve an answer?

You don't use filters and the only reason to put someone your FL is let let them read filtered post. As for making my journal less interesting...hmm, let's see...it's been a long time since you've been able to read anything on my journal...even longer since I've had anything to say that I would even consider saying in your presence, so why is it so important to you? There are exactly 2 entries you can see...why are you fighting so hard?
See...I don't care if you freind or defreind me really...that ain't the point I'm trying to make...it's that you claim to really wanna be my friend...you claim to be a smart and moral man with integrity and yet when it comes down to it you coudn't wouldn't do a simple thing that would have absolutely no effect on you but would have made me happy....so common in your life hmmm?

So fucking hard won your fucking integrity, hmm? You have no social garce.

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[info]j3ss
2007-01-29 12:14 am UTC (link)
I added you. But to be fair, I'm adding Nato, too.

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[info]ex_borodin321
2007-01-29 01:20 am UTC (link)
...you seem to place your intellect and 'integrity' over and and above common social courtesy and empathy...You have no social garce [sic].

You do realize you're on the internet, right? Courtesy, empathy, and grace are norms of face-to-face interaction, not features of life you should expect on Livejournal. This is fantasy land. If you want to make polite requests that are obliged in turn go help your parents with the groceries.

This is an interactive video-game, not a gentlman's club. You might just as well express your disdain for the behaviour of the boss on level 5. If you don't like how the internet game treats you, stop playing. Isn't it that simple?

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[info]natowelch
2007-01-29 02:13 am UTC (link)
In case you weren't aware, I banned him from replying here. If you expect him to respond, you will need to look in his journal.

Thanks for the support - and the perspective.

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This is not a house
[info]themusicgod1
2007-01-28 06:32 am UTC (link)
This site is a collection of information, a house is a physical place. I can hurt you in your house, or break your material possessions. There's some vital context missing in your analogy.

"being 'freinded' or on someones FL makes an implication that there is some kind of relationship existing that may not."

Chimeras, this implication only exists if you, (and perhaps the NSA and other springgraphers) want it to.

In fact, consider yourself friended for your arrogance.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: This is not a house
[info]abracas
2007-01-28 06:45 am UTC (link)
No..it's not....

however...arrogant I may be...I at least have the social grace to treat people requests with dignity and empathy..until they step ver the line.

I have nothing to say to him...he has nothing to say I wanna hear...

I have posted nothing that he could read for almost six months now and don't plan on changing that....

in a way...it was a test, to see if he had grown some heart or compassion...now I see that he's as lost in his 'moral dilemma's' as ever...

He came over to our house once...our busy house where we live and try to raise our three children...after a few days we dropped some subtle "go home now" hints...not to be mean, ya know...it was just disruptive having three extra bodies camped out in our small place after awhile...a week later they eventually left...to me...that says it all about Nato...


BTW..I Friended you about a year ago cause you looked interesting...I think I took you off the list after six months when you dind't respond

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
speaking of heart & compassion...
[info]kittybean
2007-01-28 08:38 pm UTC (link)
heavens, steve, i often wonder if you even read what you write. king of contradiction, always pointing fingers. sometimes i swear you even make things up out of thin air because martyrdom feels good. does it make your heart swell to be so self righteous? does it make your soul sing to bring up irrelevant half-truths to make your horse just a little higher? your exaggerated accusations of an overstayed welcome bring to mind nothing but what i now find to be insincerity & lack of communication on your part. instead of simply asking us to leave, you 'dropped hints' while also implying that we should make ourselves comfortable. you felt it a simpler solution to clam up & use the information as a reason for dislike. you communicate in mixed messages & innuendo. this, to me, says it all about you. ♥

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[info]ex_borodin321
2007-01-28 10:39 pm UTC (link)
I can't help but wonder how is it that Nato's opinion on the FL is irrelevant while yours is not?

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[info]kittybean
2007-01-28 11:03 pm UTC (link)
zing!

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Who is Nato?
[info]saintjudas
2007-01-28 09:33 am UTC (link)
Who is Nato?

And, who are you?

Man, this is an aged message as well... You probably had to dig a bit to get to it...

Might as well read up on you, and try to figure out who nato is, cause it ain't me...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Who is Nato?
[info]natowelch
2007-01-28 09:51 am UTC (link)
Nato would be me. I'm afraid you've stumbled on some drama I wasn't expecting. It doesn't involve you at all, so don't worry about it, unless you're into that sort of thing. You just happened to have been the only comment on that post for many months, and kfxstudios decided to use that as his jumping off point.

Your original post was on my disclaimer, which was post-dated so that it would always appear at the top of my journal. I've archived the flame thread and replaced it with a new one though.

You're welcome to poke around wherever. Carry on!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Who is Nato?
[info]scarletdog
2007-01-28 06:30 pm UTC (link)
I'm confused.

If I friend someone I only have access to private posts if they friend me back.

Correct?

If I really want you off I can go beg for help from the lj powes that be and ban you from my journal.

Correct?

If that is the case what is the fucking problem?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Who is Nato?
[info]natowelch
2007-01-28 08:03 pm UTC (link)
To the first question: correct.

Banning would remove the ability to make logged-in comments, but anonymous comments is a separate control, which is also available.

This is the whole friend/friend of dichotomy. LJ staff has a clear policy that says a user's friends list is the user's domain. They will not take action based solely on an appearance on someone else's flist.

http://www.livejournal.com/support/faqbrowse.bml?faqid=139&q=friends+list&lang=

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Who is Nato?
[info]scarletdog
2007-01-28 08:11 pm UTC (link)
Reasonable. So, is this person just having a 'moment' then?

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Re: Who is Nato?
[info]kittybean
2007-01-28 08:29 pm UTC (link)
yes. moment after moment after moment.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]ex_borodin321
2007-01-28 10:27 pm UTC (link)
I've just added you to my friends list.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]kittybean
2007-01-28 10:40 pm UTC (link)
HIGH FUCKING 5!!!

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[info]natowelch
2007-01-28 08:55 am UTC (link)
There are occasions where it becomes necessary to answer allegations like this. These are not for KfxStudios' benefit, but for those of my readers (and myself - I've been polite, so far).

Gloves off.

K: "If I ask someone to leave my house then I expect them to leave"

And, apparently, if he just wants them to leave, he expects them to read his mind! see below.

N: "Please stop bothering me in my journal about the content of my reading list."

And yet, when I ask you to leave my journal, you post twice. So much for social grace, respect, or courtesy.

Since he didn't stop flaming me after I asked him to stop, I've banned him from this journal. There's no reason he can't flame away at me in his own turf. Apparently that's what it's for, these days. If you're interested, go read his attacks and responses in [info]kfxstudios. I don't know if I will. And yes, anonymous comments are still on. We'll see how it goes. Just remember, K: you have NOTHING to say to me. repeat after me...

K:"the only reason to put someone your FL is let let them read filtered post"

er... the only reason I put someone on my flist is so that I can read them on my friends page, aggregated along with everyone else on it.

K:"...why are you fighting so hard?"
Fighting? I'm not fighting anything. I've been minding my own business. He's the one starting a flamewar in my journal. How this translates into a polite request to respect his feelings when he knows how I feel about this issue is bewildering.

This is my "house". It's my journal, my friends page, my flist. I don't like the "friends" semantics LJ created for this function (and now I know why), but I have to defer to them when it comes to their very clear policies regarding it (which, unlike labels, actually mean something). I do not go around telling people what they do with their stuff. If my friends ask me to do something with my stuff, and I say no, they do NOT get all huffy about it and tell me I'm arrogant, rude, and hurtful. Now THAT is disrespect.

K:"you coudn't wouldn't do a simple thing that would have absolutely no effect on you but would have made me happy"

HAPPY?! Where the hell did he say that?! If I had known it would have made you HAPPY, I'd have done it! I didn't think it was that big of a deal to him (and, well, it isn't, to hear him talk-wtf?!?!).

He claims it was asked as a favor to friend, but he was telling me at that time that he no longer wanted to be my friend. So why would that matter to me? And if he didn't want me as his friend anymore, why would it matter to him?

Oh, and before I forget: Who's playing the Martyr Game now? "You wouldn't do a little thing to MAKE ME HAPPY?! *sob*". Was that a "test", too? Was this trivial poppy seed of an issue all a setup for him to justify, in his own mind, his own differences with how I live my life?

I am now, finally, removing him from my friends list. I predict he won't actually be happy about it, and that it will not actaully make us friends again at all. What a sham! I've been had!

Stay tuned, this is a two part rant.

(Reply to this)


[info]natowelch
2007-01-28 09:16 am UTC (link)
K: "I have nothing | to | say to him"

Really? Then why have I just spent my entire evening dealing with that stream of nothings you have to say? Why has my journal burst into flames? Why has he posted more items in this THREAD than even APPEAR on his entire journal?

I WISH he had nothing to say to me.

K:"he has nothing to say I wanna hear"

Right. K needs to learn to communicate. This means more than snipes I can't respond to. It means dialogue, not television.

K:"You have no social garce."

Yeah, OK. I'm dense at times. NOBODY can help correct my mistakes without TALKING to me about them. All he wanted to do was suddenly drop off the face of the Earth, give me the (and others) the silent treatment. pray for natural selection or karma to punish me, then simmer for six months until he boils over with contempt. Detachment does appear to be working very well for him.

K: "it was a test, to see if he had grown some heart or compassion"

People generally tend to reserve their compassion and heart for people ON their friends list, not off of it. Please re-send the memo - I missed it.

K:"He came over to our house once.."
OK, now he's going WAAAAY off topic. Now he's just trashing me because he wants to have fun, and feel superior.

As I said, I'm dense. I do not respond to "hints". Ask Alli. Stand the fuck up and talk like a man. I've spent too much time in my life unsure about what people mean. When I'm unsure, I ask questions. If he didn't get any questions from me, he didn't communicate. And if Alli didn't get these alleged "hints" either, then he REALLY didn't communicate. What's my wife, chopped liver?

When they invited us to stay with them, I missed the fine print that said he was licensed to insult me in my own journal for any communications failures on his part.

Oh, and lest we forget: we never stayed for a week. And I'd love to move into that tiny crackerbox of a basement you had. You exaggerate well. I can make up shit up too. I don't.

End of Rant.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]kittybean
2007-01-28 10:56 pm UTC (link)

What's my wife, chopped liver?

no, no no, nato. i'm a vagina. get it right, for fuck sakes.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]j3ss
2007-01-29 12:16 am UTC (link)
I added you because I'm a friend of [info]kittybean. I love her long time. Add me or not as you like.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]natowelch
2007-01-29 12:31 am UTC (link)
Hello! added. Welcome :)

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